I agree with what Rainruma said. Being able to view another user's profile and list(s) can help me understand more of what kind of drama/movie watcher that person is, leading to more understanding as of why that person wrote such comment or review, or gave such score.
But, at the same time, that is exactly what can do more harm than good. I don't think everyone is nice and reasonable, unlike you probably, Rainruma. I've been in situations where other users make assumptions about me based on what I list on my profile. I don't even need to share my personal information, and people still find ways to attack me by using the info I leave there about the dramas/movies/actors I like – the entire point of using MDL.
"Oh, you're a fan of that drama. No wonder you hate this drama so much."
"I see that you haven't seen Drama A yet. So don't try to conclude that Drama B is the best drama ever."
"Based on your profile picture, you seem to expect every drama to be on that standard. You won't get that here."
They are not exact words but something along those lines. (You can disregard the last one about profile pictures, by the way, because making profile picture private is somehow pointless.) But, people making assumptions is my point here. I know this can be totally childish and brainless because it's the internet and mature people know how to ignore. It's still not the same case with everyone. Not everyone is mature, regardless of their age. Many people get worked up when seeing such presumptions made about them, and that often leads to a bigger argument, making this community full of keyboard warriors as a result.
So, giving a choice for making profile/feeds/lists private seems like a good idea to me. Like Naksken said, if you see a user's comment/review and you follow to that profile to find out more but you discover that the profile is private, then it's a dead end; no need to want to get to know that person anymore. It's their choice that they don't want you to see. On the other hand, people who want to exhibit their taste in dramas/movies will automatically choose to stay public.
If those private users are trolls or spammers, there are other ways to detect them. If they want to hide behind a private profile and troll elsewhere on the site, won't we still be able to see those troll/spam comments? We will. If a user appears nice in public but is offensive in private messages, we also have the option to report that to admins anytime.
In the same way, I think there are other solutions to solving problems like downvoters on reviews or people who give 1/10 to everything. I was talking to Hessa on another suggestion thread about how we need more strict rules about writing a review. If reviews are well-written and look like the reviewer took their time to write (contains xxx minimum characters etc.), then nobody would downvote that review, right? I personally downvote extremely short reviews that don't contribute to the community. I'm not sure if you're all talking about people who downvote every review though. I don't know if there's any. I wouldn't know. Likewise, we might need a system to make low rating givers submit their reasons for doing so. If it takes time to write some sentences, this type of spammers might give up. It also doesn't look like the best solution to me, but still, you get my point.
Rainruma said we can see that they're spammers because we check their profiles, but I think spammers don't take their time to go through the settings from the start. If there's a private/public option, they're less likely to use it. If they actually make their profiles private and make silly forum posts, we can report them based on the content of those posts alone. Admins who review those reports should have the access to all profiles, public or private, anyway. We can leave the judgement to the admins after that.
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Blocking might be another good option. That would probably solve many problems at once. Just like any networking site, there can be an option to block another user. It doesn't harm the entire community, really, because if I block User A, then I won't see User A anywhere on the site anymore while at the same time User A won't see me too. At least this can stop people from stepping on each other's toe for once. Blocked users won't see my profile, can't downvote my reviews, and can't send me messages. Basically, both sides just cease to exist in the same space. In extreme cases, every user can turn against each other and blocks everyone and MDL becomes a haunted house, but you know that's never going to happen. It's a common option for Twitter, Facebook, and many others. It can't do more harm than good.
Again, I still understand Rainruma's point that being able to stay open-minded and accept other people's opinion is kind of the whole point of this being a community. It's just that (it seems like) we can't control who can register for an account here. And, hell, how many of the people are really following the rules, let alone reading them? Options to make profile private/public or to block users would be helpful.
But, at the same time, that is exactly what can do more harm than good. I don't think everyone is nice and reasonable, unlike you probably, Rainruma. I've been in situations where other users make assumptions about me based on what I list on my profile. I don't even need to share my personal information, and people still find ways to attack me by using the info I leave there about the dramas/movies/actors I like – the entire point of using MDL.
"Oh, you're a fan of that drama. No wonder you hate this drama so much."
"I see that you haven't seen Drama A yet. So don't try to conclude that Drama B is the best drama ever."
"Based on your profile picture, you seem to expect every drama to be on that standard. You won't get that here."
They are not exact words but something along those lines. (You can disregard the last one about profile pictures, by the way, because making profile picture private is somehow pointless.) But, people making assumptions is my point here. I know this can be totally childish and brainless because it's the internet and mature people know how to ignore. It's still not the same case with everyone. Not everyone is mature, regardless of their age. Many people get worked up when seeing such presumptions made about them, and that often leads to a bigger argument, making this community full of keyboard warriors as a result.
So, giving a choice for making profile/feeds/lists private seems like a good idea to me. Like Naksken said, if you see a user's comment/review and you follow to that profile to find out more but you discover that the profile is private, then it's a dead end; no need to want to get to know that person anymore. It's their choice that they don't want you to see. On the other hand, people who want to exhibit their taste in dramas/movies will automatically choose to stay public.
If those private users are trolls or spammers, there are other ways to detect them. If they want to hide behind a private profile and troll elsewhere on the site, won't we still be able to see those troll/spam comments? We will. If a user appears nice in public but is offensive in private messages, we also have the option to report that to admins anytime.
In the same way, I think there are other solutions to solving problems like downvoters on reviews or people who give 1/10 to everything. I was talking to Hessa on another suggestion thread about how we need more strict rules about writing a review. If reviews are well-written and look like the reviewer took their time to write (contains xxx minimum characters etc.), then nobody would downvote that review, right? I personally downvote extremely short reviews that don't contribute to the community. I'm not sure if you're all talking about people who downvote every review though. I don't know if there's any. I wouldn't know. Likewise, we might need a system to make low rating givers submit their reasons for doing so. If it takes time to write some sentences, this type of spammers might give up. It also doesn't look like the best solution to me, but still, you get my point.
Rainruma said we can see that they're spammers because we check their profiles, but I think spammers don't take their time to go through the settings from the start. If there's a private/public option, they're less likely to use it. If they actually make their profiles private and make silly forum posts, we can report them based on the content of those posts alone. Admins who review those reports should have the access to all profiles, public or private, anyway. We can leave the judgement to the admins after that.
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Blocking might be another good option. That would probably solve many problems at once. Just like any networking site, there can be an option to block another user. It doesn't harm the entire community, really, because if I block User A, then I won't see User A anywhere on the site anymore while at the same time User A won't see me too. At least this can stop people from stepping on each other's toe for once. Blocked users won't see my profile, can't downvote my reviews, and can't send me messages. Basically, both sides just cease to exist in the same space. In extreme cases, every user can turn against each other and blocks everyone and MDL becomes a haunted house, but you know that's never going to happen. It's a common option for Twitter, Facebook, and many others. It can't do more harm than good.
Again, I still understand Rainruma's point that being able to stay open-minded and accept other people's opinion is kind of the whole point of this being a community. It's just that (it seems like) we can't control who can register for an account here. And, hell, how many of the people are really following the rules, let alone reading them? Options to make profile private/public or to block users would be helpful.
@Wednes ... There are always Pros and Cons.... In this case, Privacy settings have more Cons than Pros.
If people want to attack your taste, they will do it when they see your comment on a page, in the forums or in a review .... If they can't see your profile, they will still attack u based on ur profile Pic, or simply on your opinion .
As for spammers or trolls, a main reason people are for privacy settings is to deter internet predators, not bots .... There is one person that was banned from MDL 4 times already... Each time the user was identified, not only because of the comments (they raise a flag) , but what confirmed the identity is being able to see the profile, the friends list, the favorites, and the feeds .... and under the new identity, the user still befriended some of the people that feared him before ....
So again, privacy settings would not have helped since user is now a "friend"... But, Privacy settings would have helped him hide for much longer!!!
So, if privacy settings are:
* to protect against personal attacks ... People who don't like your taste or opinion will still do it.
* to protect against Internet predators .... It has been proven over and over that they could still access you account as a "friend" in disguise, laying in wait, to prey.
... or access other trusting users, and people who know cannot identify this user b/c they are not friends.
So what are they for exactly?....
What is the purpose of MDL?... It is to share opinions and recommendations about dramas ...
Yes, people have made friends IRL through here, but they use IG, FB, etc... to communicate on other social activities outside of dramas.
Note: Internet predators are everywhere, including MDL.... It is up to individual to learn to use discretion .... I am not for banning the above mentioned user, because it obviously does not deter him ...and he probably has several accounts already months old, where he seems docile at first, slowly acquiring friends, then he shows his real self, like he did last time.
* If Privacy settings are implemented, predators could hide by using them!
Also, MDL has a friendly and welcoming feel .... Administration and users help keep it that way, by pointing out bullies and trolls ... Even personal attacks, when brought to the attention of Admin are dealt with ....
So the message to such attackers is that your comments are not welcomed and will not be tolerated!.... Avoiding such a negative atmosphere is not done by "privacy settings' but by admin and users alike!
So, when analyzing Pros and Cons and the purpose of MDL .... Privacy settings do more harm than good.
** Let's not forget the Objective in using MDL in the first place! **
If people want to attack your taste, they will do it when they see your comment on a page, in the forums or in a review .... If they can't see your profile, they will still attack u based on ur profile Pic, or simply on your opinion .
As for spammers or trolls, a main reason people are for privacy settings is to deter internet predators, not bots .... There is one person that was banned from MDL 4 times already... Each time the user was identified, not only because of the comments (they raise a flag) , but what confirmed the identity is being able to see the profile, the friends list, the favorites, and the feeds .... and under the new identity, the user still befriended some of the people that feared him before ....
So again, privacy settings would not have helped since user is now a "friend"... But, Privacy settings would have helped him hide for much longer!!!
So, if privacy settings are:
* to protect against personal attacks ... People who don't like your taste or opinion will still do it.
* to protect against Internet predators .... It has been proven over and over that they could still access you account as a "friend" in disguise, laying in wait, to prey.
... or access other trusting users, and people who know cannot identify this user b/c they are not friends.
So what are they for exactly?....
What is the purpose of MDL?... It is to share opinions and recommendations about dramas ...
Yes, people have made friends IRL through here, but they use IG, FB, etc... to communicate on other social activities outside of dramas.
Note: Internet predators are everywhere, including MDL.... It is up to individual to learn to use discretion .... I am not for banning the above mentioned user, because it obviously does not deter him ...and he probably has several accounts already months old, where he seems docile at first, slowly acquiring friends, then he shows his real self, like he did last time.
* If Privacy settings are implemented, predators could hide by using them!
Also, MDL has a friendly and welcoming feel .... Administration and users help keep it that way, by pointing out bullies and trolls ... Even personal attacks, when brought to the attention of Admin are dealt with ....
So the message to such attackers is that your comments are not welcomed and will not be tolerated!.... Avoiding such a negative atmosphere is not done by "privacy settings' but by admin and users alike!
So, when analyzing Pros and Cons and the purpose of MDL .... Privacy settings do more harm than good.
** Let's not forget the Objective in using MDL in the first place! **
@rainruma, your logic about people not being able to attack you if profiles are private is flawed. How exactly can they still attack you? if a "predator" friends you in disguise, as soon as you realise you can unfriend them limiting their access to what you say. Have you been stalked? I'm guessing not. I've been stalked, I'd like to be able to keep my feed private. I'd also like my friends here who are consistently bullied to have somewhere to go and still get the good bits of MDL, with people they trust.
if you have suspicions someone is acting up and being abusive to people, take it to admin. admin can look at their lists and make that decision, you don't need to be an internet detective and do it yourself. it's not your job and you could be wrong. All those things you suggested are not proof, they are subjective. Admin can go even further and check IP addresses and locations, which users can't do and shouldn't do.
"As for spammers or trolls, a main reason people are for privacy settings is to deter internet predators, not bots .... There is one person that was banned from MDL 4 times already... Each time the user was identified, not only because of the comments (they raise a flag) , but what confirmed the identity is being able to see the profile, the friends list, the favorites, and the feeds .... and under the new identity, the user still befriended some of the people that feared him before ....
So again, privacy settings would not have helped since user is now a "friend"... But, Privacy settings would have helped him hide for much longer!!!"
So again, privacy settings would not have helped since user is now a "friend"... But, Privacy settings would have helped him hide for much longer!!!"
if you have suspicions someone is acting up and being abusive to people, take it to admin. admin can look at their lists and make that decision, you don't need to be an internet detective and do it yourself. it's not your job and you could be wrong. All those things you suggested are not proof, they are subjective. Admin can go even further and check IP addresses and locations, which users can't do and shouldn't do.
@Naksen. What is this bullying you speak of? If someone is getting bullied, they should report it to admin. Surprisingly, I haven't seen it happen that often here. I have, however, seen disagreements and disputes (and been part of some, myself), but that is quite normal for any site. If anyone steps over the line, they should be reported, however, just disagreeing or debating with someone isn't bullying, fyi.
I can totally see @rainruma's points. I can understand how adding privacy features would feel like it is limiting people here on MDL. Still, in the end, I voted to have them. Despite the cons rainruma mentions, the most important thing should be for people to feel safe and secure. Privacy options will give those people that *option*. Not everyone need to make their profile private, just the ones who feel it is necessary. It also isn't the end of the world if you come across a private profile and can't see their info. Just move along. There will still be plenty of people who will choose to have their profile remain public and you can interact with them. :)
I also am in favor of a Block feature, too. Mainly because of the exact situation rainruma mentioned above. Whether or not a person can scam their way through onto my friend list, I still would like the option to block trolls and abusers if and when they show up. Most sites have this feature from the getgo. Why not MDL?
I can totally see @rainruma's points. I can understand how adding privacy features would feel like it is limiting people here on MDL. Still, in the end, I voted to have them. Despite the cons rainruma mentions, the most important thing should be for people to feel safe and secure. Privacy options will give those people that *option*. Not everyone need to make their profile private, just the ones who feel it is necessary. It also isn't the end of the world if you come across a private profile and can't see their info. Just move along. There will still be plenty of people who will choose to have their profile remain public and you can interact with them. :)
I also am in favor of a Block feature, too. Mainly because of the exact situation rainruma mentioned above. Whether or not a person can scam their way through onto my friend list, I still would like the option to block trolls and abusers if and when they show up. Most sites have this feature from the getgo. Why not MDL?
@Naksken ... I don't want to repeat, so let's just agree to disagree.
However, i will address the new points for other users trying to decide.
- The flawed logic is that if a profile is private, who is going to bring it to the attention of administration? ... as given by my example, the friends did not suspect... It is the Non-friends who recognized the person.
I am not for being a detective, nor am I for witch hunts..... I do NOT support banning the above mentioned suspected predator ... Better to keep things open.
It is the usually the users that alert Admin, they decide.... This is a community, a friendly open one.
- As for stalking... a Block would work better than "Privacy"
How do you know you are being stalked unless they interact w/ u in the drama page, on your feeds or in the forums? ... They can still harass u outside the profile....
EDIT:
@ CherryBunny .... You make a good point about *feeling* secure .... I guess that is my point, the Privacy Settings would give a False Sense of security ....
People should be be vigilante w/ who they get peronal with, even their friends... the case of the suspected predator showed how he stealthily works his way into people trusting him first, and Privacy settings would help him hide.
You are right in the end, not being able to see someone's profile is not a huge problem....
But everyone was stating one side, I felt I needed to point out the other side and let people decide after the case for both sides was presented.
However, i will address the new points for other users trying to decide.
- The flawed logic is that if a profile is private, who is going to bring it to the attention of administration? ... as given by my example, the friends did not suspect... It is the Non-friends who recognized the person.
I am not for being a detective, nor am I for witch hunts..... I do NOT support banning the above mentioned suspected predator ... Better to keep things open.
It is the usually the users that alert Admin, they decide.... This is a community, a friendly open one.
- As for stalking... a Block would work better than "Privacy"
How do you know you are being stalked unless they interact w/ u in the drama page, on your feeds or in the forums? ... They can still harass u outside the profile....
EDIT:
@ CherryBunny .... You make a good point about *feeling* secure .... I guess that is my point, the Privacy Settings would give a False Sense of security ....
People should be be vigilante w/ who they get peronal with, even their friends... the case of the suspected predator showed how he stealthily works his way into people trusting him first, and Privacy settings would help him hide.
You are right in the end, not being able to see someone's profile is not a huge problem....
But everyone was stating one side, I felt I needed to point out the other side and let people decide after the case for both sides was presented.
Answering about what will be on the new version:
1- Who can see my MDL list? No change in the new version, everyone can see your list.
2- Who can see my feeds (talking about the one on your private MDL profile page)? There are Public and Friends only options for posts on the feed.
3- Who can see my lists ? Public and Friends option
4- Who can comment on my lists ? Not sure, will check this later
4- Who can send me private messages ? Everyone (however PMs are still under construction)
5- Who can see who my friends are ? Everyone
1- Who can see my MDL list? No change in the new version, everyone can see your list.
2- Who can see my feeds (talking about the one on your private MDL profile page)? There are Public and Friends only options for posts on the feed.
3- Who can see my lists ? Public and Friends option
4- Who can comment on my lists ? Not sure, will check this later
4- Who can send me private messages ? Everyone (however PMs are still under construction)
5- Who can see who my friends are ? Everyone
Naksken, Again, though. Why wasn't it reported to admin? I honestly haven't ever seen a group of people on here get together just to harrass and bully anyone. (At least, on purpose.) There have been troll accounts, yes, but admin deals with them when they are reported. Also, I have no idea what agenda any group of people on here would have. You make it sound like a conspiracy theory of some sort.
I agree with you about the privacy features needed and am glad that the new update will put some options in place. I am a bit disappointed that will be no block option. Still, there is no reason to get an attitude with what I said. Again, I was mostly agreeing with you. I just am surprised about the bullying you speak of. Next time you see it, you should report it.
I agree with you about the privacy features needed and am glad that the new update will put some options in place. I am a bit disappointed that will be no block option. Still, there is no reason to get an attitude with what I said. Again, I was mostly agreeing with you. I just am surprised about the bullying you speak of. Next time you see it, you should report it.
@Hessa, that plan for privacy looks great! thank you so much.
@cherrybunny, i did not say whether it was or wasn't reported, that's not actually the issue. it would be nice for people to opt out of having to do that by just making their feeds private. I'm also disappointed in no block option, maybe we'll get it in the future - fingers crossed. I've been surprised when i've seen the bullying too.
@cherrybunny, i did not say whether it was or wasn't reported, that's not actually the issue. it would be nice for people to opt out of having to do that by just making their feeds private. I'm also disappointed in no block option, maybe we'll get it in the future - fingers crossed. I've been surprised when i've seen the bullying too.
From Rainruma's opinion, I understand that comparing profiles and lists to detect any kind of threat or troll could be really effective. I still think, however, that the most result we get from doing so is only raising suspicions. We can never say for a fact based on what we think that a user is or is not a troll, or in this case, an internet predator. It can go only as far as for personal precaution – so you can learn to distance yourself from this user, and maybe if you're nice enough, you warn others about him/her. But, again, reports made to Skye can't just be based on this as well, right? For a person to be an internet predator (or a troll, a threat, a spammer), it's not about what's shown on his/her profile. It's about the actions. And when those actions are spotted, then reports can be made after.
So, as much as anyone feels comfortable using this profiling method for personal purposes to stay away from creepers, there are people who are comfortable with not being on the receiving end of this kind of "profiling" too. It's actually no different than stalking and being stalked, or the feeling of being stalked, you know. (Because you never actually know who looks at your profile.) So, I still think privacy settings give users "options" to let others stalk them or not, frankly speaking. This is not about that one person who got banned time after time. It's a considerable option for every kind of user.
If the characteristics of internet predators are people who befriend their preys, the "profiling" job can be done by the "friends" that have access to their profiles. I have the same answer as Naksken: as soon as we detect that this "friend" is someone we don't want to grant access to our feeds anymore, we can just unfriend them. After unfriending, they no longer have access to our profiles. We feel safe then. This seems like it can do more good than harm to me.
Personally I could disregard all these options. I for one am a person who values anonymity a lot. That's why I love the internet, and I'm more mature than to abuse that fact. People can diss me all they want it still doesn't affect who I am as a person. It's not the same case for everyone though. Overall MDL is a far more mature site than many sites like Tumblr, for example, but a lot of people still clash with different "mature" opinions about non other than dramas and movies, the main topics of the site itself. Giving a little privacy option for those who aren't mature enough, or are mature but don't feel like wasting their time and temper on certain arguments, is the least we can do. If profiles can be private, not 100% of "people judge/attack my taste" problems will disappear but at least some will. Not being granted access to something can make people give up on attacking, that's what I believe.
But, well, thanks to Hessa for the update! Thanks to the admins for working hard to answer our cries. I just logged in after three days and I just came from answering the same questions in private messages, so I apologize if I sound incoherent.
So, as much as anyone feels comfortable using this profiling method for personal purposes to stay away from creepers, there are people who are comfortable with not being on the receiving end of this kind of "profiling" too. It's actually no different than stalking and being stalked, or the feeling of being stalked, you know. (Because you never actually know who looks at your profile.) So, I still think privacy settings give users "options" to let others stalk them or not, frankly speaking. This is not about that one person who got banned time after time. It's a considerable option for every kind of user.
If the characteristics of internet predators are people who befriend their preys, the "profiling" job can be done by the "friends" that have access to their profiles. I have the same answer as Naksken: as soon as we detect that this "friend" is someone we don't want to grant access to our feeds anymore, we can just unfriend them. After unfriending, they no longer have access to our profiles. We feel safe then. This seems like it can do more good than harm to me.
Personally I could disregard all these options. I for one am a person who values anonymity a lot. That's why I love the internet, and I'm more mature than to abuse that fact. People can diss me all they want it still doesn't affect who I am as a person. It's not the same case for everyone though. Overall MDL is a far more mature site than many sites like Tumblr, for example, but a lot of people still clash with different "mature" opinions about non other than dramas and movies, the main topics of the site itself. Giving a little privacy option for those who aren't mature enough, or are mature but don't feel like wasting their time and temper on certain arguments, is the least we can do. If profiles can be private, not 100% of "people judge/attack my taste" problems will disappear but at least some will. Not being granted access to something can make people give up on attacking, that's what I believe.
But, well, thanks to Hessa for the update! Thanks to the admins for working hard to answer our cries. I just logged in after three days and I just came from answering the same questions in private messages, so I apologize if I sound incoherent.
