So, I think if the Overall rating would be automatic, based on the "Suggested overall" people wouldn't mess up the rating, and it would be accurate, even if a show is overrated.David33:
the issue is - dramas are so much more than story, acting, music and rewatch value.
Do we put characters into the story? It's not the same. What about directing? Editing?
Personally I use the overall rating to indicate my subjective thoughts and feelings about the show, while using sub-ratings to be a bit more objective. That's why I can give sub-ratings in the categories as 7.0, 8.0, 8.0, 8.0 and then give the overall rating 9.5.
There is no system of rating on mdl that people can refer to. For some 7 is a good rating, for others it's the lowest they can give. None is truly wrong, since it's all subjective anyway.
Kate:
the issue is - dramas are so much more than story, acting, music and rewatch value.
Do we put characters into the story? It's not the same. What about directing? Editing?
Personally I use the overall rating to indicate my subjective thoughts and feelings about the show, while using sub-ratings to be a bit more objective. That's why I can give sub-ratings in the categories as 7.0, 8.0, 8.0, 8.0 and then give the overall rating 9.5.
There is no system of rating on mdl that people can refer to. For some 7 is a good rating, for others it's the lowest they can give. None is truly wrong, since it's all subjective anyway.
I agree, if we want to do separate ratings, MDL should include everything or not using this feature at all.
Ratings are subjective, BUT saying 7/10 is a low score is not subjective. 1-4 pretty much means the movie or the show is CRAP, 5-7 means AVERAGE, 8-9 is GREAT, and 10 of course is PERFECT!
Honestly, I hate ratings, I love writing reviews more, but most people only look at the score, and if the score is high enough they will watch the product. There aren't many people who actually can write a decent, well-written review. A LOT of review is about how cute the main couple is, basically.😅
I think a rating system like on Metacritic would be much better. We only need to use 3 options: Positive, Mixed and Negative.
I think it's time to hide the Review option for shows that aren't finished yet!
There's this suggestion: Remove ongoing reviews category, which has a similar proposal to yours, and comments with very interesting ideas how to implement this.
I agree btw, and have already voted for the other suggestion.
So, I think if the Overall rating would be automatic, based on the "Suggested overall" people wouldn't mess up the rating, and it would be accurate, even if a show is overrated.
No. No, please. Don't take away the minuscule amount of freedom we have when it comes to star ratings in reviews.
As Kate said, there's much more to a drama or a film than these four categories.
For me personally, I usually don't care much about music, if I don't notice it, it's probably done it's job -- it does not have much bearing on whether I think the drama was good.
And "rewatch value"? Some of the best movies out there I would never watch a second time -- so, should I give a 10 for "rewatch value", so the overall rating won't be messed up? There are people who never rewatch anything, what should they give in this category if the overall rating is calculated automatically?
Also, what about documentaries? "Acting/cast" and "story" are nonsense categories for those.
I'd much rather the star ratings were abolished altogether for reviews or at least not be obligatory (something like this is suggested here).
most people only look at the score
That might very well be. I don't know either what makes people upvote or downvote a review, and it's really frustrating to see a review of mine getting downvoted and not knowing why that person did it. Is it the review that is bad? Or does the person just not agree with it? Some kind of feedback would be nice.
But that's people for you, we can't *make them* do what we think is right.
btw, as I understand it, the score in reviews doesn't affect the displayed overall score on the "details" page, that one is only calculated from the star rating that appears in the watchlist.
Ratings are subjective, BUT saying 7/10 is a low score is not subjective. 1-4 pretty much means the movie or the show is CRAP, 5-7 means AVERAGE, 8-9 is GREAT, and 10 of course is PERFECT!
If you look at profiles, people have very different opinions about what number they consider a high/low score -- if everybody is consistent in their own rating, things should even out overall.
(ceterum censo gagaoolalam esse addendam)
I think we are in agreement that the current system of star ratings with the four given categories is not adequate for the complexity of a drama or movie.Saeng:
I think they should remove the rating system, and just keep the original one. 1 system is enough.
I'm not sure about this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels as if you are conflating the overall rating on a drama's page with the singular ratings that come with each review?
Yes, I want this! One rating system is messy enough, we don't need two. It doesn't matter if someone write a review or not, if I rate something 8/10 on the MAIN PAGE, but I give 10/10 on the REVIEW PAGE, the whole rating system is meaningless, and so many people do this!
A review is mainly the written word, the thoughts and feelings the reviewer has about the title. The star rating is just an unnecessary addition, the main point is the text. If we look at professional reviewers, they rarely give points, and if they do, it's more of an afterthought to everything else.
I mean, that's my point. Most people don't read reviews, they only care about the scores. Ergo, what we write doesn't matter, and that's why I think one rating system is enough. My official job is to write reviews, so I know how people think. They can't focus for more than 5 minute! Imagine if I write a whole essay about a Kdrama.😅
Having some kind of scale, be it 1-to-10 star ratings or another simpler kind, like your proposed three tier system, appear to be extremely important for you though -- or maybe I misunderstood something?
A rating system is important, but as I said earlier, one is enough, we don't need two with multiple options.
I really think that "music" is not that important, and if I did not notice it, it did its job -- so it was about average. And you said it yourself: "5-7 means AVERAGE".
That wasn't really my point, tho. Music IS important, it's literally one of the most important part of the cinematic journey in a movie or in a show! Ask any artist! If you didn't notice it, it means (excuse my language) they did a crap job. A good music choice, not to mention the score, elevates the scene!
My point here was that if you, or anyone else, rate music 5/10, the OVERALL score can't be 10/10. It's just dumb, sorry! The overall score can only be 10/10 if you rate every category 10/10! That's my point, and this is the reason, I think, this rating system is a MESS!
I have several dramas and movies in my completed list that I found extremely good -- but would I rewatch them? Maybe some years in the future (so, rewatch value 2 to 4.5) or even in a few months (5 to 7.5), but I probably won't actively seek them out again.
Again, this is the reason this system is messed up and meaningless. MDL should use one system, there's no point adding other categories, especially the "Rewatch value".
So, can a movie for you really not be excellent overall, even if one or two aspects did not get up to "10 points"? Must an excellent movie also be a movie that I love so much that I would watch it again and again, or have music so great that I seek it out to listen to it after I watched the movie? I'll repeat: "Was it good?", "Did you like it?" or "Would you recommend it?" are three very different questions.
I rarely give a perfect score for anything. Even 9/10 is unusual, especially in Kdrama Land. I have hundreds of Soundtracks on my Spotify list, so yeah, I listen to a lot of OSTs. Not just typical songs, but SCORE as well! That's more important than any Pop song.
Honestly, now that you mentioned. A rating system like this would be so much better.
You can pick 2 options after you finished or dropped a show or movie:
1. I recommend it (or "I liked it")
2. Don't recommend it (or Didn't like it")
No scores, just simple opinion that can cover everything, not to mention, because there's no score, no one can say, something is overrated or underrated.
As I said, the purpose of a review is to convey the thoughts of the reviewer via the written word -- and if I could, I'd not rate anything at all.
Exactly! And that's why the whole rating system makes the review meaningless!
There's one silver-lining, tho. On the Webpage, I finally learned how to quote just 1 part of a comment.😅
They can't focus for more than 5 minute! Imagine if I write a whole essay about a Kdrama.😅
there are people who love essay long reviews. Some of my top upvotes reviews are in fact the essay long, and since people also comment about the content of the review, i know at least some actually read them. Most of my friends on mdl also like long and detail reviews. Your experience is not necessary representative for the entire website and its users.
Music IS important
it's not for some people. The ratings on this website are subjective and they will ALWAYS be because 99.999999% of users have no knowledge nor background relared to cinema. The ratings are representative for normal everyday people, not critics. Some people could not care less about music. Some people literally dislike music overall, so for them it's not an aspect that elevates anything when they watch dramas.
no one can say, something is overrated or underrated.
a rating that is only 1:0 is meaningless, when majority of productions are mid tier.
I mean, that's my point. Most people don't read reviews, they only care about the scores. Ergo, what we write doesn't matter, and that's why I think one rating system is enough.
I am really not sure if I understand you when you write "one system".
Is it
a) rating one the details page (watchlist) + rating going with the review = two systems
or
b) rating for the categories + overall rating going with the review = two systems?
If a) then, yes please, abolish the review ratings and keep just the watchlist ratings. I don't care if it's a 1-to-10 star rating system or a three-tier system -- it'll be skewed anyways.
If b) then your proposals don't fix the two problems: 1) reviewers will rate how they want (you just don't see how they got to their rating, and if they want to "fix" the average, then they'll do so) and 2) readers who only focus on whether they agree with the rating and don't read the review itself, will still upvote or downvote based on the rating that goes with the review.
Some people could not care less about music. Some people literally dislike music overall, so for them it's not an aspect that elevates anything when they watch dramas.
Talking about what should be important when rating a drama (and how important music is for it) -- this is gettinga bit too off-topic. Might be a cool topic for somewhere else, though, to discuss what's important for each of us when we write a review.
Let me just say, I am one of those people Kate mentions. I am not, nor have I ever been a music person. Even as a child, I listened to music for the lyrics. In dramas and films, I tend to notice silence more than any musical score.
Regarding music and whatever else in my reviews -- I am writing as an amateur, yes. I'm telling people about my thoughts, my feelings, and what is important for me. I don't want to be restricted in what I think is relevant. I don't want to be forced to give an opinion on whatever someone else thinks is important, and I certainly don't want to be forced to give one singular rating (be it a number or a "I recommend it") to a complex work.
2. Don't recommend it (or Didn't like it")
Two different things. Just because I like it, doesn't mean I'd recommend it. And, even then, recommend to whom? The potential audience is so diverse, what I'd recommend to one person, I would not recommend to another. Recommendations only make sense if they are targeted towards a specific person or group of people.
a rating that is only 1:0 is meaningless, when majority of productions are mid tier.
That, too.
I think at this point, David and I will probably have to agree to disagree. We both have exchanged enough arguments, and it's becoming clearer that we won't agree -- and the decision on whether there will be any changes lies with MDL's owners anyway. So, thank you for the discussion, it was interesting.
Ceterum censeo GagaOOLalam esse addendam.
P.S. David, I wish you wouldn't disparage MDL users at every turn. Many of them are young and don't know any better. And while I too don't like that more than a few comments here remain superficial and ignore the richness that lies beneath the surface -- you, David, are starting to sound like an elitist.
I might be wrong but I think OP just worry that the overall rating in review interface does not yield a "mathematically" correct number. This is actually an easy fix; just remove the word "suggested overall" which is the root course of the misunderstanding....lol
1 system is enough
Actually there is always one system. It's just that the number you put on review, need to be entered again on your watchlist....because it doesn't have the automatic system and writing review is not a compulsory "gateway" to rate a show anyway. Maybe when the developers wrote the code for MDL in the early days, they thought many will skip the reviews, IDK.
I am really not sure if I understand you when you write "one system".
Is it
a) rating one the details page (watchlist) + rating going with the review = two systems
or
b) rating for the categories + overall rating going with the review = two systems?
One rating that we see on the main page. I don't think reviews should have a rating system, and as you said, it doesn't even affect the main rating. So, what's the point? MDL should remove that feature or mix it with the main one. Sorry if my mumbling is confusing, I'm very tired. 😅
Two different things. Just because I like it, doesn't mean I'd recommend it. And, even then, recommend to whom? The potential audience is so diverse, what I'd recommend to one person, I would not recommend to another. Recommendations only make sense if they are targeted towards a specific person or group of people.
Yes, you're right, but if we can't see an actual score, it won't impact anyone if they should watch it or not. Like you said today, I wouldn't mind if the whole rating system is gone. I don't care, honestly. I mean, I watch anything I want, because it looks interesting, not because some random person rated 10/10. Pretty much 100% of the time, I only read the summary of the story IF it's not containing spoilers, or watch 1 trailer, and that's all. I can tell based on 1 trailer or a short summary if I will like something or not. 90% of the time I picked shows or movies I liked, or at least it wasn't bad. You can see my Watchlist. There's only 1 Dropped Kdrama, and I'm watching shows and movies for more than 2 decades.
you, David, are starting to sound like an elitist.
First of all, I don't think we disagree on anything. We want the same thing, 1 good, and functional rating system. Second, I'm not an elitist, I'm just a perfectionist with OCD, and I hate when I see a flawed system that clearly not working. I don't care about the other stuff you mentioned.
David, I wish you wouldn't disparage MDL users at every turn. Many of them are young and don't know any better.
Why? Why should I agree with everyone? If we always have the same opinion, there's no point talking about anything. Arguing and fighting with each other is not the same thing, and for the record, I hardly comment. Also, I don't care how old someone. Being young is not a free pass to be dumb and ignorant.
I'm reading disgusting comments on this platform every day, so I don't think I'm the problem here, just because I have a different opinion.
Your experience is not necessary representative for the entire website and its users.
Never said, everyone here is like that. I read a LOT of long reviews on MDL.
it's not for some people. The ratings on this website are subjective and they will ALWAYS be because 99.999999% of users have no knowledge nor background relared to cinema. The ratings are representative for normal everyday people, not critics. Some people could not care less about music. Some people literally dislike music overall, so for them it's not an aspect that elevates anything when they watch dramas.
Yes, for many people, music is not important, and that's why we don't need 2 separate rating system. Makes no sense. Yes, ratings are subjective, not only here, pretty much everywhere. My problem isn't the fact that most Kdrama fans overrate things, I mean, for example on VIKI, I don't think I've ever seen a Kdrama with a lower average score than 9.0. 😂 My problem is that on the Review page, we have 4 different categories, BUT out of 4, most people only know something about the Story and maybe the Rewatch value, but that doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the show or the movie. I don't want to erase the option, I just want one good system. I don't think any of us know much about Acting as well, unless if one of are actors. Not to mention, most of the time, even the best actor can do a crap job if the script is a mess. For example, that Fairy Godmother show with Moon Chaewon, or what was the title.
a rating that is only 1:0 is meaningless, when majority of productions are mid tier.
Honestly, rating in general are meaningless. I don't think there's an actual system we can't manipulate. I've seen so many 18+ rated shows or movies with low rating, just because it had adult scenes or gore. Like, it's not like we can't see the rating, yet people give a 1/10 rating even if they didn't watch a single minute. Ergo, rating means nothing.
Also, yes, you're right, most majority of the productions are mid, yet 90% of those are rated higher than quality shows, but then again, if I say this, someone can say, I'm bias as well. And if I say I'm not, who's gonna believe me? Even tho I rated shows lower than 5/10 even if my fave actors were in it.
I might be wrong but I think OP just worry that the overall rating in review interface does not yield a "mathematically" correct number. This is actually an easy fix; just remove the word "suggested overall" which is the root course of the misunderstanding....lolTimiZero:
Yes, this is 100% my point! They can remove the "suggested overall" and the overall rating can be automatic based on the reviewer scores. Or as I said, just remove all 4 category, we only need 1.
Actually there is always one system. It's just that the number you put on review, need to be entered again on your watchlist....because it doesn't have the automatic system and writing review is not a compulsory "gateway" to rate a show anyway. Maybe when the developers wrote the code for MDL in the early days, they thought many will skip the reviews, IDK.
Yes, that can be a reason, probably, and honestly, I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority with this "massive" problem. 😂
Honestly, rating in general are meaningless. I don't think there's an actual system we can't manipulate. I've seen so many 18+ rated shows or movies with low rating, just because it had adult scenes or gore.
Same happens with any horror. Majority of horrors have lower ratings compared to other titles. For exact same reasons. I think after being on mdl you can kind of observe and learn how to "read" ratings. Which countries and genres have overall lower scores so 7+ is actually good. Which countries have overrated, so anything below 8 is basically skippable in most cases.
Even tho I rated shows lower than 5/10 even if my fave actors were in it.
I'm one that for sure uses the whole spectrum from 1 to 10 hahaha I have more shows rated 7 and up simply because I drop most dramas that feel like 6 and below. I wish more people would actually use the whole range of the rating and not keep it 7+ (which happens a lot).
I do think that sub-categories for reviews should be removed and just kept as one 1-10 rating. If someone wants to know how someone felt about specific aspects of the show, they should read the review - it will explain it. No needed to add numbers to all these categories, when most people don't even care about them.
